TheRadioBoard

Hi guys.

My current antenna is working OK...during the contest, I was able to pick up multiple stations well over 400km distant and one 1065km away. I did have to struggle a bit to pick up a 1kw station only 13km away. Now of course a good part of that is probably the construction of my radio, and some of that could be physical orientation of the antenna, but I doubt it as the 1kw station is in the same general direction of several of my longer hits. So, I figure before it gets to being fall/winter, a longer antenna couldn't do any harm.

I know everyone says higher is better than longer, but, my antenna (long wire) is about as high as I'm going to be able to get it for the foreseeable future. Now I'm thinking about changing the configuration a little bit, and adding some length. Obviously I want to top load it.

The question I have is, if I'm adding multiple runs about 1 foot apart, would I be better off having it be one long wire folded on itself, ie a stretched 'S'?

Would it work just as well, or better, if the three lines were tied together on each end like an "8" and then connected to the lead in near one end?

Or how about a stretched "E", all tied together on one side and open on the other end and connected to the lead in near the closed or the open end?

Or doesn't it matter?

Hi FT ,

Try 3 wires parallel to each other the seperated 3 feet the lenght of the ant .You would need to make spreaders and have 6 insulators .This would be similar to your E shape and similar to what Mike Tuggle uses for his ant .

Something that helps long term proformance is placing the ant wire in teflon tubing , my ant is 3 years old and the wire still looks new . The teflon tubing was surplus and cheaper than the wire ,at the price of copper anything to make it last longer.

Mark

I've been using 16ga insulated copper speaker wire for my antenna. Its insulated. I also sealed the end with silicon sealer so moisture and air has a much harder time getting at the copper. Although I don't know for sure, I don't think the teflon will help much more on that. I can see how it would work on an uninsulated wire.

In my case, since my antenna needs to bend in the middle, I'd need 9 insulators, OR, really only 3. I use PVC pipe as my insulators. For a single line its just a short piece in each location, for multiple runs, 1 foot apart I was thinking just a 2foot long section (plus a little bit) for each one, although I will have to check how flexible it is. 3 foot separation I think would be much to large for my location.

So the stretched "E" is what Mr. Tuggle uses. Anyone else favor closing the far end like this:

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or the stretched "S" like this:

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as opposed to this:

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battradios' idea was the best. You're not gaining anything doubling back on the wire. In fact, that could conceivably result in some cancellation of signal.

Yes. Definitely use the "E" configuration. If you cant separate it 3' , use whatever separation you can. Also Make the length of each leg of the "E" a little different legnth. (broader bandwith)

OK, I get the idea on the E vs 8 vs S antenna. I'd like a suggestion on how much to vary the length of the parallels. 1 inch? 6 inches? 3 feet? More? and should they just be stepped such that the longest is on one end and the shortest the other end with the middle length in the middle or should I put the shortest or longest in the middle or doesn't that matter at all?

If you were going to use it on shortwave I would suggest this:

http://www.bobsamerica.com/harry-ant.html

But if only for the AM BCB then vary the legnth whatever you can.

1 Inch obviously isnt going to make much difference, also 50 feet difference would be great if u can actually stretch out 1/4 wave or more of wire which i very much doubt.

Ideally the longest wire would be resonant(cut to legnth) at the lowest frequency(535 Khz) and the shortest one at the highest(1700 khz).

Also they should be near 1/2 wave long for an end fed antenna.

You really are not going to be able to get it that long on the AM BCB, so:

Make the longest wire as long as you can and the other ones each "significantly shorter" than the next longer one.

Thats a good summary. I doubt the most sophisticated test equipment could tell any diffrerence

Hi, Guys. This thread is right up my alley at the moment, as I have permanently LOST my previous antenna location and my 115 foot long, 50 foot high "inverted L" random wire due to a dispute with my previous workplace landlord . I will now be limited to my home backyard, which will have only a maximum "run" of about 50 or so feet and an elevation of 35 feet available for an antenna, located in the lowest point of my hometown. So, this talk of an "E" antenna or a "staggered E" antenna with different length "top hat" wire runs is starting to intrigue me a bit. I was initially planning to try an "inverted U" antenna, for increased gain, however....I thought I'd throw this one out for anybody who knows enough about antenna design to speculate on an answer for me.

Since the first wire of the "stagered E" should be as "long as possible, with the next two each being significantly shorter than the previous one" what would be the result of COMBINING such a "staggered E" type antenna with an "inverted U"??
My idea is this: build a "staggered E" type antenna as discussed earlier in this thread, except make the longest of the top hat wires continue around down to within a foot of the ground as in a standard inverted U. Would this POSSIBLY combine the increased gain of an 'inverted U' antenna, with the resonance advantages of a three wire "top hat", as well as the bandspreading advantages of using three different length "top hat" wires?

If an antenna like this MIGHT work, it could really help out those of us with limited yard space, who are forever frozen out of the club of those who can erect a 100 plus foot antenna for our contest sets. Does anybody with the antenna knowledge have any input either way on why a "Staggered E/Inverted U" combination random wire antenna either might or might NOT work? Thanks, Jim.

Do you mean something like the "EWE" antenna which is a kind of beverage?

I think the results of what you are invisioning is almost impossible to predict without sophisticated computer modeling, as well as knowing the ground reflection/absorption conditions at your location.

Hi, Ham-er. Yes, very much like it, only the medium wave crystal radio versions I've read about are neither anchored with a resistor at the far end nor had a balun & coax lead-in for the house end. (those would be more for short wave reception? I read the "EWE" is workable across a very broad frequency range....)

The version I saw for crystal radio came to within a foot of the ground on the far end, with a standard arrester/lead-in set up on the radio end. That is more or less what I have in mind, with these approximate dimensions: 25-30 foot vertical, a top hat run of 50 feet for the main wire before its turning down to within a foot or two of the ground on the far end; top hat wire #2 paralleling #1 for 38-40 feet; then top hat wire #3 paralleling the two previous wires for about 25 feet (or about half of the total top hat run). The 3 top hat wires would be spaced about 2 1/2 - 3 feet apart.

Reading up on the EWE, I did notice the "ground issues" that might come into play that you mentioned....does anybody else have any ideas on this? - Jim.

P.S. I was also considering running a copper wire counterpoise along the ground beneath the wire antenna along its run, connected to my earth ground rod to augment the antenna/ground system....any speculation how this would affect: 1.) a standard random longwire, 2.) an "EWE" type antenna, or, 3.) an "E" type 3 wire "top hat" antenna? Thanks - J.

Before I forget, a quick question....if using an "E" style top hat run antenna, should there be 3 SEPERATE verticals from the radio up to the feeder end of the top hat; or, just a single lead in up to the three wires with the radio end of the antenna being the "connected" end of the top hat "E", and the open end of the "E" on the far away end? This might be an elementary question for some, but all of my antennas up until now have been nice, simple, long randomwires! Thanks, Jim.

I like to think of this as 3 random wires with a lead in.

A "top hat" is usually called that because it is a method of capacity loading a verticle antenna.

However, if there is more wire vertically than there is streched out horizontally then in effect it IS a top hat. Some of our antennas for the AM BCB may very well be like this due to space and tower limitations.